7 Myths About Narcissism and Narcissistic Personality Disorder

I'll See That, And Raise You A Nickel

All right...for the hard of thinking...let's begin again, shall we?:

You're assuming Love has value.

You're assuming Life has value.

You're assuming others have rights,

And you're assuming the social treaty is to be honored a priori and by rote.

In addition to All the Above, you're assuming there is such a thing as "real" and "not real", when it comes to human warmth, empathy, love and affection. Vaknin (an admitted narcissist who's making hay off hating his brethren), keeps harking about "False Self" (I see a few excellent memorizers used it here, too)--well, in the words of Vonnegut, "We are what we pretend to be". There is no "false" Self, no "real" Self, only *Self*. Narcissists realize this, and embrace it, but others, weakened by the effects of industrialization and the unsurety of postmodern thinking via the rhetoric now taught as education, turn it into a problem.

I agree with the bit about selfdoubts, being plagued by fears and worry...but, *you*, every one, create that in others, whether they're narcissists or not, infect them, like the kid in every school who sends 80 others home with measles or a cold. See, *you*, loving NN's (non-narcissists), *you*...you're all fearful. You're Chicken Little. And, you infect us with your weakness, then project onto *us* as the "weak".

Vaknin also writes that we narcissists believe all love and caring among humans is to some degree contrived. Exactly. It is. One sets parameters, barriers, boundaries, one has one's own set of criterion, one's own prerequisites and hoops to jump through...if these are not met, and often enough, one withholds love and caring and affection. What is this but coldblooded Selfwill, dear "loving" NN's? Why, it's as infantile as what you accuse Us of, and it begs the question: "If love is removed or withheld on whim of ego (and look around you), is it not bestowed via same to begin with?"

See? *You*--your *Self*--decides who to love and who to stop loving, and the decision is often capricious and emotions and id run high. But...*you're* making that happen--consciously, then claiming the circumstance as excuse (an adjunct to arguing from the analogy, I think).

Human beings, from Time Immemorial, are murderous, fanged predators. The only difference between you and your brie and crackers, "let's watch the new release and talk about nice things" crowd, and those who strode the earth long ago, is that they weren't afraid, and you are--and, you should be, because as the article points out, my kind are becoming all the more prevalent...and you aren't going to sweep us away with violence or non-violence. Nothing has been left today's children, their "teachers" bury History and Faith every day with a sneer, at best birthing (by and large) nothing more than more audience members for Oprah. But, *our* #'s are growing, "Those Who Don't Care", and those ranks are swelling because postmodernism leaves us with what? Hunter-gatherers on the honor system.

What a laugh.

In Response, and Re: my daughter calls me this.

Krissie, my heart goes out to you that you are experiencing so much pain, however I have to say that I notice from what you wrote that the things that hurt you most have to do with her rejecting you after you did this for her, and you did that for her, and the other for her... and not just that you miss HER. That you miss talking to her and hearing about her life etc. My ex-boyfriend of five years (holy cow) is a narcissist, and long after we broke up he called me crying because he was feeling suicidal after his most recent girlfriend had broken up with him. Narcissists often feel desperately miserable after they've been rejected in some way, but it does not mean they truly loved the person who rejected them. He said a ton of hateful things about her, and was very bitter, as you seem to be towards your daughter.

Your feelings are still real, and valid, and painful, and it would be worth it for you to consult with a therapist to help you deal with what you're feeling. Hopefully you can find a way to reconcile with your daughter at some point, and to reconcile with your own feelings.

And I disagree with the part of this article which says that Narcissists are not insecure. That's B.S., I'm sorry. They are insecure and think they're awesome at the same time, and a lot of their erratic behavior stems from the oscillation between the two. They are so beyond average insecure, in fact, that they are often crippled by self doubts that they will rarely trust any individual enough to ever share. Narcissists love their own reflection and lack empathy, that is true, but they are also incredibly mistrusting and frequently paranoid about being "found out." I'm a psychology grad student, and as I said before, was in a relationship with a narcissist for five years. Because our relationship started when we were adolescents, and continued into adulthood, I was privy to the evolution of the illness, the stages, the mood swings, the bloated self-perception, and the crippling self doubts. And I mean crippling. Really. Truly. These phases were always short-lived, and this is typical in narcissists, and why they rarely seek help, as the crashing down of their egos never lasts long, as it's far too painful for them to cope with. Perhaps some narcissists never exhibit this kind of periodic revelation, but this is because they've done such a good job of surrounding themselves with so much "narcissistic supply" that they never run to empty. If they ever did, they too, would have this kind of phase.

Anyways, that being said, I do not mean this in any sort of defense of those with the disorder. They're impossible to deal with, and it can be excruciating to have one in your life. Don't think that they will recover; they won't. They're like drug addicts or alcoholics, only their choice substance is other people, and thusly it's impossible for them to ever get "sober."

That's my two cents.

You're not crazy...they are...RUN!

There is no rollercoaster ride like the rollercoaster ride you will be taken on by a Narcissist! You will come as close to losing your sanity as any person should ever. It may take you quite a while to figure out what is happening to you. YOU are being mentally and emotionally abused (and in some cases physically). The weird thing is you can't quite put your finger on it...you can't find the words to describe it to others and in most cases other people won't believe you if they have been sucked into your Narc' zone. They appear so wonderful and perfect to others (like they once did to you). You actually risk other people thinking you're nuts if you try to convince them that the Narc is. YOU DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THAT. What you need is to understand what YOU are really dealing with and finding the legs to RUN!

1) Know it is not YOU!

2) Do Not allow yourself to entertain the idea that you can 'fix' them. Or that if only they understood they would change. You can't and they won't!

3) Connect to someone who knows or has experienced and successfully gotten away from a narc' themselves. They may be the only person you make sense to right now!

4) ACCEPT that you cannot bring back that wonderful person you originally fell in love with...they were never real to begin with!

5) Read as much as possible about them so the REALITY becomes more real to you...so you can remember that its not you. Know the signs. For some it takes more than for others but at least if you are reading a ton of material that supports the FACTS, it is harder for you to slip back into the fantasy fog that they so well create!

6) Lastly...run, run, run! Don't look back if you can manage it. Literally, your sanity depends on it!

:(

I wish I wasn't a narcissist :(

Just to add

In case someone wanted to research how various forms of economic punishment work at the macro level (as in globally), here's a source...

http://www.cfr.org/publication/2765/

Clearly, if this form of less aggressive behavior serves to have detrimental effects at that level, it can also work with smaller scale organizations as well.

Don't let those pathological narcissists make anyone feel powerless in a bad economy. One does hold some power to punish their behavior without having to make themselves part of a huge drama.

The upside of the trait can work well for organizations (narcissists are, indeed, competitive, which can drive profits), but the downside is that in excess, the trait can end up costing organizations in terms of lost revenue.

Economic sanctions. Less overtly aggressive, and it can work to the detriment of this personality type, if they do not keep the downside of the trait in check.

No ideas, though, on how to curb the trait within domestic governments (it does not seem to work on ousted former state governors, who are now being rewarded with "reality" tv show appearance contracts). LOL

Oh well.

Great article

Thanks for pointing out, to us laypeople (readers) that it's not just limited to physical vanity (people tend to think of Hollywood celebs whenever NPD is mentioned).

Once, in a work-related situation, there was someone who psychologically preyed on newcomers by attacking them during a most vulnerable time (new people don't know a lot of stuff related to the new system, so they are more prone to making errors until having done things so often that they're finally on "autopilot," much like driving a familiar route as opposed to driving through a new neighborhood).

This individual would then immediately run around the organization badmouthing new people. Upon further investigation, it was discovered that they had done this before, with others, and so it was not just an isolated personality conflict, but was a "pattern" of behavior.

So apparently, it's not just about Hollywood celebrities feeling entitled to complimentary dinners at the best restaurants or not having to wait in line, but can also be about aggressively defending turf within an organization by badmouthing any newcomers.

Since there's apparently little hope of a "cure" for this, may I offer a suggestion on a way to peacefully deal with these people in a non-confrontational manner that does not make you look like a whiner if you actually call such personalities out on their behavior? If the organization sells a product that one could easily get from a competitor, then take your hard-earned money and spend with the competitor, instead of contributing to the pot from which this aggressive personality type is being paid from.

That way, what ends up happening is that the source of aggression is having a detrimental effect on the organization's profit, and those who have to deal with the aggressor avoid having to be more overt by complaining to others and being seen as whiners.

It's the same tactic that international communities employ with tyrants: economic sanctions!

Whatever you do, though, DO NOT get into it overtly with these types. It's not going to be a pretty picture. Just turn your business elsewhere while you have to be around them and put up with their rudeness.

Reflected image vs true self

According to the legend of Narcissus, .... The mythological Narcissus rejected the advances of the nymph Echo and was punished by Nemesis. Consigned to pine away as he fell in love with his own reflection......

Narcissus is not in love with himself. He is in love with his reflection.

Loving a reflection has two major drawbacks:

One depends on the existence and availability of the reflection to produce the emotion of self-love.....

The popular misconception is that narcissists love themselves. In reality, they direct their love to other people's impressions of them. He who loves only impressions is incapable of loving people, himself included.

But the narcissist does possess the in-bred desire to love and to be loved. If he cannot love himself – he must love his reflection. But to love his reflection – it must be loveable. Thus, driven by the insatiable urge to love (which we all possess), the narcissist is preoccupied with projecting a loveable image, albeit compatible with his self-image (the way he "sees" himself).

these are excerpts by Dr Sam Vaknin (I dont know him or work for his publisher), he gets closer to understanding the true nature of Narcissism.

Now, would a "loveable image" really be compatible with being called a Narcissist? No. They are very good at NOT being labeled Narcissists.

(oops)

Uhhhhhhh...that should be "assembly-line", not "assmenly-line".

*Wow*. Really grabbed my ankles and requested it on that one...

The Significant Other Made Me Do It

I'm certain people are getting tired of my posts (not that Other's feelings are a priority in my Life), but a couple of folks here have begun building a case for narcissism as having been "created by Others", that the collective "They" build one's "who", then blaming the person affected for acting out this supposedly "learned" behavior!

While it's true that, to some extent, Stimulus A produces Response B (the teachings of Skinner, reprehensible though they be, are inescapable), I think we in Western society are kidding ourselves by making individuals out as assmenly-line products of environment, then getting hissy when the person doesn't belly up and accept societal (or relational) "rules".

Lookit: If you wanta say, "poor widdle Johnny, Life hurt 'eem so much, *that's* why him be so mean!", I'll give you that; if you wanta say, "*Oooohhh!* Those rotten {expletive deleted}s! How *dare* they toxify the beautiful world we live in (that sweet, romantic place)!", I'll give you that, too...but, *one or the other*. If Mummy made me do it, I have Wonka's Golden Ticket, sorry. If I volitionally chose it, then catch me if you can. But, take your pick. Eclecticism is fine for choosing music one enjoys or debating for fun. Not for determining "why" someone is an emotional criminal. According to you.

Oh, and...I happen to believe (and I believe this about all addictive behavior as well) that it's a *choice*, at some point real, definite, volitional and embraced. Catch me if you can.

narcissism

I THINK IT IS VERY DANGEROUS TO LABEL PEOPLE AS HAVEING THIS DISORDER AND THAT DISORDER MY MOTHER ALWAYS ACUSSED ME OF BEING NARCISSTIC AND THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THAT I WAS VERY UNSURE OF MYSELF, THEREFORE ALWAYS NEEDING APPROVAL OF OTHERS I HAVE A PERSONAL STORY ABOUT THIS ISSUE AND I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE IT PERHAPS IN A DIFFERENT VENUE. TOO LONG TO WRITE THE ROLE OF A PARENT OR SIBBLING FOR THAT MATTER IS TO LOVE AND APPRECIATE THEIR CHILDREN AND SISTERS AND BROTHERS FOR ALL THE GOOD THAT THEY ARE WE ALL HAVE GOOD IN US WE START OUT VERY INNOCENT AND VOID OF MEAN AND ILL THOUGHTS SOMEHOW THEY GET DEVELOPED IN AN EFFORT TO PROTECT OURSELVES FROM A HURT WE HAVE ALREADY HAD OR ONE WE DO NOT WANT. AS YOU CAN SEE I HAVE A LOT TO SAY ABOUT THIS SUBJECT